It’s disheartening, really. Pathetic, even, that a vast majority of United States citizens are blinded to how advanced we could be in the sciences, medicine, economic growth and foreign policy if religion were completely eradicated from government in all forms. . . Our children are dumbed-down by stubborn uber-religious teachers and administrators in our public schools who insist on “teaching the controversy” (read: lying to our kids)[. . .] The United States Government has no business invoking any god, gods, goddesses or anything else even remotely connected to religious belief. Our government is not in place to placate anyone’s religious beliefs, period. There should be no references to the religious beliefs of our politicians.
Read more . . .
Always Question Authority 
In what way did I make a false equivalence between 16/17th century Christian Education and contemporary Christian education? I hope it is not in regards to the list of Christian scientists. They range in time from the 16th Century (specifically Descartes birth in 1596) to current. The majority of those listed have existed within the last century and a half.
Also, I am not sure, how you would debunk the equivalence idea. Look into it before being so sure.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uaGO861TV_kC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=statistics+on+the+achievements+of+faith+based+education&source=bl&ots=EgJ9xysb9w&sig=Uh5poAz8FyfLcQ4phHeqMqLaeP0&hl=en&ei=nyDWTpT2EuyZiAfTwOWaDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Ba4kMS97UvoC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=statistics+on+the+achievements+of+faith+based+education&source=bl&ots=_KprdAHMSq&sig=JHqcSt4VZbKvA1ahoq1CEPcBY0g&hl=en&ei=CSHWTqXAHYaviQfKnbmnDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=statistics%20on%20the%20achievements%20of%20faith%20based%20education&f=false
how so? how would america advance without it, its what america was founded on.. the beliefs that pushed the nation to become indepentent
I would invite you to look at my posting and the links provided about the separation of Church and State on my blog. There is much that our, secular schools, don’t teach when they want to write out religion.
You make quite a logic leap when you assume because if Christians don’t agree with all the current science, that we are somehow “not educating” our Children. This is a vast overgeneralization. The kind Christians are criticized for making constantly.
So now it is not only the religious (those who think differently from you in regards to science vs. spiritualism) that you think are ignorant, but also those who disagree with you politically.
Just become someone thinks differently, does not mean they are ignorant.
I agreed with you and your premise about the separation of Church and State, albeit, from a different perspective. Your response was a sarcastic, review of the history I presented, ended with a childish “not” (please forgive me if I misread this, I obviously hear tone when writing or reading). Please if my History was wrong, please highlight where.
Descartes, Newton, Gregor Mendel, Pasteur, Stanley Jaki, Richard Smalley, Geroges Lamartrie (the one who proposed the Big Bang). These were all folks essential to the formation of modern science, to which you hold as Gospel (euengelion=good news or truth). Are they uneducated and credulous.
tobeforgiven,
“Your response was a sarcastic, review of the history I presented, ended with a childish “not” (please forgive me if I misread this, I obviously hear tone when writing or reading).”
I am sorry you feel that way. In my response I:
– thanked you for your comment
– expressed agreement with your comment
– concurred with your history
– made an attempt at humor by alluding that, as an atheist, there may be a God, then claiming no, not really, I am still an atheist, but I enjoyed our correspondence nonetheless
I could easily debunk the false equivalence made between a 16th/17th century Christian education and a contemporary Christian education; however, I have neither the desire, nor the inclination.
In Reason,
Madison
I am not sure what you mean by your last two posts.
One thing that has always gotten me, is the fact that after the puritians seperated themselves from England, with its religious oppression, the proceeded to do the same. The Baptists, quakers, some congregationalists, and unitarians, were all forced to seek protection in Rhode Island and Pensylvania. I would say the same about nations which have freed themselves from the same kind of tyranny in non-religious terms, Russia, when they left Czarism, or France, after the first revolution, or even China. They all freed themselves, and then set even more repressive leaders in thier sted.
Surprisingly enough, I agree with you.
Perhaps I could turn it around however, and say that Government needs to be out of religion. If the religious want government to be on their side, we have to understand that we are inviting government control into our churches. I know this as the country I live in has a great deal of control. Very few charities are run by churches, as they are in the US, because the government assumes control. Those churches and charities who do exist, receive a great deal of governmental funding, and are restricted accordingly.
Before I left, the last time, I heard the debate about the Mosque being build in Manhattan. Christians were up in arms over this. They turned to the government to have this stopped. If we do this we set a precedent, that government has the right to deny or accept the work of a religious institution. The government has no place in this.
Or in the case of gay marriage. If we turn to the government to safe guard our commitment to traditional marriage, then we will have to keep our mouths shut when the government comes to us, to tell us how we are going to view marriage. The government should be able to marry whoever they see fit to marry, as I, in my church, should be able to do the same.
Public citizens should have the right to say and believe what they want. When they go to the government to restrict that right on another group, they need to recognize that they are saying that Government has the right to restrict them as well. Government holds no such right.
The idea of the Separation of church and state, and of religious freedom was supported mainly, usurpingly enough to many non-believers, by the Baptists. The Danbury Baptist Church in Connecticut, send a letter to (then) president Jefferson, pleading the case against the Government establishment of religion (1802). I believe they got it right.
I agree with you thus far.
However, if you are saying that Government has, then, the right to restrict the rights of individuals and their faith (or speech), then I would once again refer you to history.
tobeforgiven,
Thanks for the comment. I wholeheartedly agree with you, and your history is spot on! Maybe there is a . . . not.
In Reason,
Madison
It is exactly your commentary here and the commentary of the Four Horsemen that make it imperative that religion stay right where it is within government. Our children are being dumbed up by secularism, aka “anti-theism,” “anti-religionsim.” This secularism is a religion in and of itself and as long as our public schools and government are being influenced by this anti-theist mindset, my vote is that we continue allowing freedom of religion within the United States of America, like the American constitution says — and not freedom FROM religion like aggressive, fundamentalist anti-theists desire.
the warrioress,
I cannot comprehend why one would be against educating their children. These are the exact persons that have no business having children to begin with. These same parents are the ones that vote for the politicians, i.e. the sub-literate Republicans that so proudly thump their Bibles to their uneducated, credulous constituents for their votes. It’s a vicious circle of ignorance based on irrational beliefs.
In Reason,
Madison
I disagree; religion keeps humanity sane
squiznit,
Thanks for the comment; however, religious history proves quite the opposite.
In Reason,
Madison
Amen.